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LET us go then,
you and I,
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When the evening is spread out against the sky
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Like a patient etherised upon a table;
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Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
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The muttering retreats
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Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels
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And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:
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Streets that follow like a tedious argument
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Of insidious intent
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To lead you to an overwhelming question …
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Oh, do not ask, “What is it?”
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Let us go and make our visit.
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In the room the women come and go
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Talking of Michelangelo.
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The yellow fog that rubs its back upon the
window-panes,
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The yellow smoke that rubs its muzzle on the
window-panes
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Licked its tongue into the corners of the evening,
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Lingered upon the pools that stand in drains,
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Let fall upon its back the soot that falls from
chimneys,
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Slipped by the terrace, made a sudden leap,
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And seeing that it was a soft October night,
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Curled once about the house, and fell asleep.
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And indeed there will be time
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For the yellow smoke that slides along the street,
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Rubbing its back upon the window-panes;
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There will be time, there will be time
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To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet;
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There will be time to murder and create,
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And time for all the works and days of hands
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That lift and drop a question on your plate;
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Time for you and time for me,
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And time yet for a hundred indecisions,
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And for a hundred visions and revisions,
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Before the taking of a toast and tea.
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In the room the women come and go
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Talking of Michelangelo.
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And indeed there will be time
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To wonder, “Do I dare?” and, “Do I dare?”
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Time to turn back and descend the stair,
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With a bald spot in the middle of my hair—
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[They will say: “How his hair is growing thin!”]
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My morning coat, my collar mounting firmly to the
chin,
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My necktie rich and modest, but asserted by a simple
pin—
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[They will say: “But how his arms and legs are thin!”]
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Do I dare
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Disturb the universe?
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In a minute there is time
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For decisions and revisions which a minute will
reverse.
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For I have known them all already, known them all:—
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Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons,
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I have measured out my life with coffee spoons;
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I know the voices dying with a dying fall
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Beneath the music from a farther room.
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So how should I presume?
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And I have known the eyes already, known them all—
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The eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase,
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And when I am formulated, sprawling on a pin,
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When I am pinned and wriggling on the wall,
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Then how should I begin
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To spit out all the butt-ends of my days and ways?
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And how should I presume?
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And I have known the arms already, known them all—
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Arms that are braceleted and white and bare
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[But in the lamplight, downed with light brown hair!]
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It is perfume from a dress
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That makes me so digress?
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Arms that lie along a table, or wrap about a shawl.
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And should I then presume?
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And how should I begin?
. . . . .
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Shall I say, I have gone at dusk through narrow
streets
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And watched the smoke that rises from the pipes
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Of lonely men in shirt-sleeves, leaning out of
windows?…
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I should have been a pair of ragged claws
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Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.
. . . . .
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And the afternoon, the evening, sleeps so peacefully!
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Smoothed by long fingers,
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Asleep … tired … or it malingers,
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Stretched on the floor, here beside you and me.
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Should I, after tea and cakes and ices,
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Have the strength to force the moment to its crisis?
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But though I have wept and fasted, wept and prayed,
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Though I have seen my head [grown slightly bald]
brought in upon a platter,
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I am no prophet—and here’s no great matter;
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I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker,
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And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and
snicker,
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And in short, I was afraid.
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And would it have been worth it, after all,
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After the cups, the marmalade, the tea,
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Among the porcelain, among some talk of you and me,
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Would it have been worth while,
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To have bitten off the matter with a smile,
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To have squeezed the universe into a ball
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To roll it toward some overwhelming question,
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To say: “I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
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Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all”—
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If one, settling a pillow by her head,
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Should say: “That is not what I meant at
all.
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That is not it, at all.”
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And would it have been worth it, after all,
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Would it have been worth while,
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After the sunsets and the dooryards and the sprinkled
streets,
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After the novels, after the teacups, after the skirts
that trail along the floor—
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And this, and so much more?—
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It is impossible to say just what I mean!
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But as if a magic lantern threw the nerves in patterns
on a screen:
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Would it have been worth while
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If one, settling a pillow or throwing off a shawl,
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And turning toward the window, should say:
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“That is not it at all,
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That is not what I meant, at all.”
. . . . .
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No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;
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Am an attendant lord, one that will do
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To swell a progress, start a scene or two,
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Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
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Deferential, glad to be of use,
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Politic, cautious, and meticulous;
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Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse;
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At times, indeed, almost ridiculous—
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Almost, at times, the Fool.
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I grow old … I grow old …
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I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.
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Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
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I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the
beach.
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I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.
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I do not think that they will sing to me.
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I have seen them riding seaward on the waves
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Combing the white hair of the waves blown back
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When the wind blows the water white and black.
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We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
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By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
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Till human voices wake us, and we drown.
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This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete“I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker,
ReplyDeleteAnd I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker,
And in short, I was afraid.”
Prufrock, in these lines, indicates his self-awareness. He has seen “the eternal footman,” aka, Death, hold his coat, and laugh, showing that he is afraid of his own mortality, which he is acutely aware of, as he has seen the “moment of [his] greatness flicker.” Furthermore, just in case the reader had not yet picked up on it, Prufrock explicitly states that he was afraid when he saw death.
In addition, these lines serve as a setup for later lines in the poem, for example, when Prufrock says that he was not “Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be,” and how he is merely “an attendant lord,” showing that Prufrock is painfully aware that he has accomplished nothing great in life, and is afraid that he will pay for it afterwards.
Also, there is an explicit irony in this poem. Prufrock says that he is not “Prince Hamlet,” but in these lines, Prufrock discusses the same fear of death that Hamlet describes in his “to be or not to be” soliloquy.
I agree with Prufrock's self-awareness and almost self consciousness. This self consciousness is especially evident before your chosen passage, from lines 39-45 where Prufrock is worrying about what the women will think about his appearance. This brings up the whole idea of trying to predict other's thoughts and perceptions on oneself before the event actually happens.
DeleteI find interesting that in your selection, Prufrock seems rather confident in himself and who he is. He uses definitive words such as "I have" and "my greatness", as well as expressing his fear frankly. In many other lines of the poem, Prufrock seems completely unsure of himself. He seems to struggle with what he knows and what he doesn't.
DeleteIn the lines where he doesn't seem confident, I wonder if he is not lacking in confidence, but just aware of the internal struggle he is having. He may be completely aware of the options he has, but indecisive, not lacking in confidence.
I think it is very interesting how Prufrock seems to experience the very same fear of death that Hamlet expresses. Although he states that "I am not Prince Hamlet", the two men both are very humbled and humanized by the threat of death and the mystery surrounding it. In this way it seems that death is something that unites us all because it is the great inescapable unknown.
DeleteSteph, I think that he seems so indecisive (uses indecisive language) in the rest of the poem because he is talking about things that he is uncomfortable with. For example, throughout the whole first page of the poem, he is talking about women, the people that he will come into contact with in the future, and questions that surround his life. Because he is uncomfortable with these subjects, for whatever reason, it follows that he uses less concise language to describe these acts. However, it seems as though he spends so much time rambling about how he has never amounted to anything that the only thing that he CAN be sure of is that he isn't special. I think this is why he uses that "confident" type language that your'e talking about. I think that that is the only idea that he can really latch onto and believe. Because of this he uses conviction when he speaks about it.
Delete"Do I dare disturb the universe? In a minute there is time for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse" (46-49).
ReplyDeleteIn this excerpt, Prufrock made evident his fear of the unknown and decisions made out of his reach. He can't control or know what the women will say. Will they find him attractive? Will they think he's a creep? Will they hate him? In Prufrock's own words, "...disturb the universe?" Prufrock is debating whether or not he should even bother with taking a risk, or if he should just let it be and not do anything; for in his next line, he claims that there is time. There is time for these social situations (decisions and revisions) later in his life.
This is important because it clearly shows me that Prufrock is the type of person that puts things off and hopes to accomplish them at a later time. He has more of a shy personality and he lets his conscious get the best of him - at least in social situations such as this.
I agree with your idea of this theme of uncertainty towards the end of the poem. He seems to second guess himself because he fears all of the possible negative outcomes of his decision. This is quite different then how he starts the poem off though. He begins by basically saying take action in your life, don't just sit back and wonder about what may happen. Then he does a complete turn around by saying, " "Do I dare disturb the universe? In a minute there is time for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse" (46-49).
DeleteI agree that Prufrock is the kind of person who puts everything off and hopes to accomplish things at a later time. He seems to feel like he has an unlimited amount of time, and he does not realize that this is not the case until it is too late. He finds it very difficult to take initiative and take responsibility for his actions. Also, Prufrock's fear of the unknown is evident when he talks about his fear of death (lines 85-87). Overall, Prufrock seems like a very worrisome and fearful character who is forced to live with the frustration and regret that he caused for himself.
DeleteMike, I read those lines more as "will I choose to act against fate, or the events that are occurring to me in my own life?" I really thought that this sentence connected to Hamlet's To Be or Not to Be Soliloquy, where he says
Delete"To be, or not to be, that is the question—
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die, to sleep—"
Overall, I believe that these lines are talking about the choice that he has between living a life of action or living a life of passivity to the events and people around him.
"The eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase,
ReplyDeleteAnd when I am formulated, sprawling on a pin,
When I am pinned and wriggling on the wall,Then how should I begin
To spit out all the butt-ends of my days and ways?"
In this excerpt Prufrock is struggling with the perception he faces from the people in his life. He questions his mortality and his struggle to find freedom under the gaze of society. Prufrock describes himself as being formulated, sprawling on a pin. This means he feels as if his existence is being monitored. He feels lost and feels as if his freedom is being obstructed. Prufrock is becoming aware of the presence of the panopticon. He knows that even though he may have ultimate freedom he has to adhere to the constructs that limit us in society. He is trapped by eyes.
What I also find quite interesting in this excerpt is how Prufrock says "Then how should I begin, To spit out all the butt-ends of my days and ways." This can be interpreted as how Prufrock is excepted to act in society despite the harmful gaze he is threatened by. He is forced to act that everything is alright and that he should respond to questions and not be confused by life or riddled by anxiety.
This particular excerpt is important in the poem as a whole because it helps the reader understand Prufrock's struggles and his conflicted views on existence.
I definitely agree with your idea that Pruflock is living in a world where he fears other peoples perceptions of him. It is very evident in the passage you selected. Pruflock even uses the imagery of him pinned to wall to show that he feels that he is trapped. He feels that his freedom and his identity is being harmed because he trapped by the eyes and opinions of others.
DeleteThe definitely makes sense. I am curious to explore further your point about the butt-ends, though. It seems that Prufrock calls his actions butt-ends because they are bad in some way. But are they bad because society calls them bad, or bad because Prufrock thinks they are bad?
DeleteNot only do I think that Prufrock is afraid of what others perceive him as, but also of what others are forcing him to be. He is afraid of the effect society is having on his own self, and how he is changing in order to conform to what they expect of him. In this transition he feels stuck in a limbo between trying to find himself once again, and trying to be accepted. He is becoming exactly what he is trying to avoid, yet he cannot avoid it.
DeleteI think Prufrock knows who he is, but he struggles with being mislabled or mis-pinned. I definitetly agree that when he says, "the eyes fix you in a formulated phrase," he feels confined by her definition of him. However, he asks, "and how should I presume?" I interpreted this as Prufrock wondering how he can get her to the truth; to understand who he is instead of conforming to the immediate judgement that she made.
DeleteLooking at the lines you picked against mine, I'm seeing a side of Prufrock that appears frequently. I feel that in addition to being under the constant watch of society, he's starting to feel the detrimental effects on himself. This part about, "questioning his morality" comes through a lot. He's questioning his existence in society, and questions his actions, and I think that is just digging a deeper hole in his life. I think these lines show the fears Prufrock has about his place in society as well as himself.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"Oh, do not ask, “What is it?”
ReplyDeleteLet us go and make our visit."
This line of Prufrock's poem is most relevant to what we have been discussing in class recently. This line is the epitome of existentialism. Don't waste your life talking and wondering about how something would be, experience it. Don't let fate, or anything for that matter, control you. Go out and do things, experience life, and by doing this control your life.
Not only does this quote directly relate to what we are doing, but it is also one of the most important quotes from the poem. This shows the reader the type of person Pruflock wants to be. He wants to be the kind of guy that doesn't ask questions and just goes for whatever he wants. However, he later describes to the reader that this just isn't the case for him. He questions almost every decision he makes, exactly the opposite of what the quote in the beginning of the poem portrays.
This is quite an interesting contradiction Prufrock aligns between the beginning and the end of the poem. Why does he draw it, though? Do his philosophical and moral beliefs change as the poem progresses?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAt first, I overlooked the importance of the second line. I especially focused on the, "what is it?" or uncertainty aspect, over the "Let us go and make our visit" or the more existential aspect. Now realizing the important meaning behind these two lines, it does draw some extreme contradictions regarding Prufrock's character throughout the course of the poem.
DeleteThe question "What is it?" reminds me very much of the opening line of Hamlet, "Who's there?". I think that throughout life that we as human beings are always questioning these things. Although we may not want to, we always do because it is in our nature. This ability makes us uniquely different from any other species.
DeleteI drew the same conclusions from these lines. I can see the existentialism aspects, especially with using the words, "us" and "our". Pufrock is not talking to someone else, it's himself that needs to move on and not be uncertain about his decisions. I agree that he wants to be that man who takes action and doesn't just think all the time. Especially within the "to be, or not to be" soliloquy, that constant theme of thought vs action can be seen with Hamlet.
DeleteTo prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet;
ReplyDeleteThere will be time to murder and create,
And time for all the works and days of hands
That life and drop a question on your plate
I find myself a victim of exactly what Prufrock describes here. I tend to change what I say, and how I act when talking to different people. "Preparing a face to meet the faces that you meet" is something everyone does, if even slightly to achieve the approval of whomever they are speaking with.
This follows with the next line, which could also state a hard truth about oneself. Everyone makes mistakes, and some are blocked out of memory, or "murdered". There are thousands of thoughts that pass through one's head every day, and only few take form and become completely created. There is a time when even those thoughts which have taken form are murdered. It seems as though the cycle of life also exists in consciousness and subconsciousness.
The next few lines, going along with the same idea, are things that take place in thoughts. It makes you wonder if any of the thoughts you have are completely your own. For example, parents. Parents lift and drop questions on your plate every day. They ask you what is right, and what is wrong, and what you should have learned from society thus far. There is an infinite number of hands that have done many notable and great things which will drop questions on your plate. But, because everyone is a product of their environment, are the answers you provide really yours? Are you creating them, or are the hands? Are the faces that you meet those which form your own prepared face?
I think that this quote exposes Prufrock's inner struggle. He does not know what is his own, and what those around him have forced him to be, and for this reason he is scared. He is stuck waiting for a time in which his own self will be formed.
This quote struck me as very powerful too. I actually was going to select it to analyze, but you beat me to it. :)
DeleteI think an essential part of the quote though is the last line (you didn't include it), "Before taking of a toast and tea." To me it exemplifies how on a daily basis, we, people, are constantly trying to determine who we are, we are trying to form our identities and we do this even before we wake up. Before our morning cup of tea and toast.
The idea of identity is one that haunts everyone. Who am I? As you said, I think we ponder this idea both consciously and subconsciously. Are we truly individuals, or are we a mixture of all the people we know? Are we a little bit of everyone which comes together to make an individual? This idea is truly scary. When do we know when we are completely ourselves or are we never completely who we will be?
I was also initially going to choose this section. The line that I'm mostly drawn into is "to prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." I completely understand how people change their facade depending on who they are with. I am a much different person around one group of friends from another, or my parents, teachers, etc.. So if we are all playing these different people, who is the real me?
DeleteI read an article the other day about a boy who felt his online gaming personalities were more representative of who he truly was than how he was in a non virtual world. Why do we all have such a struggle trying to find who we truly are?
Hamlet and many of the other characters struggle with this idea a lot. An idea that is consistently brought up is the idea of acting, and "playing." Hamlet does not know who he is to other people, he knows what he wants to be, yet he cannot push himself to become that person, which he discusses in his soliloquies. He has a major self conflict of about his identity. Not only his identity, but also other people. He understands that all the people he is around may be acting around him, not being their true self, again leading him into anxiety, who are these people? Who is really there? Is it a face they are just putting on for me?
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
ReplyDeleteBy sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.
I thought this was a very interesting and somewhat abrupt end to Prufrock's poem. This section captures the essence of ambiguity and uncertainty that surrounds us in our life, when all of a sudden reality hits us and we spiral out of control. I see the "sea-girls" representative of how people imagine their life to be or desperately want it to be. We all want our lives to be filled with happiness, beauty, or what ever you desire, and the "human voices" or the harsh realities of life eventually catch up to us, and we drown. We drown because our head is under the water of negative thoughts, regrets, or a loss of hope.
I see this with Hamlet. He wants to be in "the chambers of the sea" which could be Denmark, or the chambers of the castle, or a university, where he can surround himself with books, or love (Ophelia) and happiness (as I said earlier, represented by the sea-girls). In those chambers he'd be unaware of anything else going on, only aware of what he was making himself subject to, and what he was making his life into. But he was awoken, after his father's murder, and the shame of his mother, Hamlet became extremely conscious of corruption, death, and the unavoidable unfortunate events of life. And his awareness and full flood of emotion, which Prufrock represents as being awake, Hamlet was unable to handle these new realities, and he "drowned". He was unable to take what he was given, which he disliked, and work it into his life without becoming extremely angry/anxious/nervous, which led him to his own death.
You have some great points, but I can see a further connection here to "No Exit". In the play, the characters lament the lack of sleep, which symbolizes freedom from making decisions and consciousness in general. In this passage, the word "wake" implies that his time with the "sea-girls" was spent asleep and further extends the idea of unreality there.
DeleteI think you can also look at this as Prufrock trying to isolate himself. The connotations that sea girls--nymphs can be drawn to greek mythology. The song of the siren, though alluring and wonderful at first would drag in the listener in until they drowned. I think this is what Prufrock means. He finds himself absorbed in a sort of fake beauty until he looses himself, he refuses to acknowledge the power of his existence and he drowns.
DeleteI really like the way you think about that. There is definitely a greater connection to be made about sleep and being awake and its relationship to what you think is reality. That also leads me to think, sometimes it is hard to tell the difference between memories and dreams, memories are so often altered in our minds and will never be an exact recollection of the moment, and dreams can seem so real you convince yourself it truly happened. So what does that say about reality? It is very "existential-esque," what is real?
DeleteI completely agree with Sophie's notion that the sea girls are an allusion to nymphs but I personally believe that, going off of what Sonja said about sleep being representative of a freedom from decision making and consciousness, that sleep is in fact the ideal existential state. The mind decides its direction and makes happen what it sees fit to transpire. There are no preconceived circumstances and there are no limitations; there is no direction except that which you mind gives it. This strikes me as an implication that as he drowns, he is actually heading out of this existential utopia and into the real world as human voices suffocate him as the water would and he is no longer the free bird that the chambers of the sea allowed for him to be.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn a minute there is time For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse
ReplyDeleteFor I have known them all already:-Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons,
I have measured out my life with coffee spoons
Before he spoke these lines, I felt as if Prufrock was trying to get a woman’s attention. But at this moment I see him examining his own life and exactly how he is living. “For decisions and revisions” is a struggle that he is always dealing with and what I think many people deal with. In a whole day, one can take a moment to think and think and think, and second guess what happened early on, or what they said. But then that moment, even if he thinks it’s not going to matter, lags on as he constantly analyzes and questions what decision he made.
I do believe this is one behavior that many humans share, that ability to obsess over and even have regrets over previous actions. Prufrock realizes that this constantly goes on in his life, throughout every single day. I think at this point, he knows he doesn’t like this aspect of himself and it’s weighing him down, and all he has is questions for himself. I used to find myself frequently doing this in the past, over thinking and going through my head something unintelligible or dumb I had said or something I have done. But I’ve realized that probably who ever I was speaking to forgot about it, and I should too. I do think reflection is good for oneself, almost like a self check so you don’t make rash decisions. Concerning his past actions and words, I would tell Prufrock that whatever is in the past in the past, and you can’t change it. I think this is one of many places to start with his continuous questions.
From the beginning of the poem, he started off with, “You and I”. At this point, I think he’s talking about the Prufrock who is looking at his life and the one who is actually living his life. He seems to be in a similar mindset as Dante, there was two Dantes and here, there’s two Prufrocks. I believe the last line is Prufrock looking at his life in context of the society he lives in. Analyzing both together, he can see he’s not living a meaningful life as he wants to. “I have measured out my life with coffee spoons” really seems solidify his disappointment with society. He fears rejection, being very hesitant, “with coffee spoons” and ultimately sees his existence with society to be not as good as it seems.
Your last paragraph about the two Prufrocks is a really good analysis of the structure of the poem. When I read, "measured out my life with coffee spoons," I thought of that song from Rent, but I never realized the sarcastic implications or the disappointment he felt for his life. Coffee is something we drink when more needs to get done and sleep isn't an option. Drawing off of one of Sonja's comments above, sleep represents freedom and consciousness in "No Exit." I never realized that Prufrock lamented his avoidance of sleep throughtout his life.
DeleteWhat really sticks out to me in the excerpt you've chosen is the line "I've measured my life out in coffee spoons." In this quote I am immediately drawn to Metamorphosis. Gregor lives in perpetual mundanity. Gregor does not live each days, he exists in each day. His way of life is formulaic and passive. Prufrock shares this same struggle. He looks back on his life and realizes that he has nothing to look back on at all.
Delete"And indeed there will be time
ReplyDeleteTo wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?"
Time to turn back and descend the stair" (37-39).
The concept of time is consistently brought up throughout this poem, but in an interesting way. Most people feel like we do not get enough time on earth, but Prufrock seems to feel like we have plenty of time- maybe even too much. Prufrock clearly feels a lot of regret and frustration in his life, and he seems to blame these negative feelings on the fact that he has had so much time. He probably feels like he was able to mess so many things up because he was not restricted by time.
This quotation is so significant because it conveys so much emotion, and gives us insight into the character of Prufrock. In these lines, Prufrock is warning us that in life, we will be given opportunity to "dare" and take risks. He is saying that we are going to be given the chance to step out of our comfort zone, but we have to decide if that is what we want to do. If we do not take chances, we will most likely end up just as frustrated and regretful as Prufrock. Judging from the line "time to turn back and descend the stair", I can tell that Prufrock struggled with stepping out of his comfort zone. He probably resisted anything that he was not comfortable with and chose to "descend the stairs", bringing him back to a mundane life that lacks any excitement.
I think you are right about time being a significant factor in Prufrock's poem--I do believe he sees it as being unlimited and granting many opportunities. It's interesting because it contrasts deeply with Hamlet. Hamlet is so aware of the finality, the mortality of life, and that he focuses and fears it as a result. What Prufrock suggests, in its place, is that you should fear death because of the amount of time you have in life and what amount of usefulness you procure in its place.
DeleteI do agree with the idea of Prufrock viewing life as very long, giving people plenty of time to make their decisions. However, I think this is similar to the way Hamlet views life at times, rather than contrasting Hamlet's views completely. Hamlet seems to be very frantic at certain points throughout the story, however, at other times he seems to put off his responsibilities, specifically killing Claudius. For that reason, I feel as though sometimes Hamlet is in the same mindset as the man in the poem.
DeleteYes, it is clear that Profrock believes there is a lot of time for contemplation, which is further shown when he repeats the line “and how should I presume?” and “there will be time”. However, he is aware that his time is ending soon, and mentions his old age several times.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"S`io credesse che mia risposta fosse A persona che mai tornasse al mondo, Questa fiamma staria senza piu scosse. Ma perciocchè giammai di questo fondo Non tornò vivo alcun, s'i'odo il vero, Senza tema d'infamia ti rispondo."
ReplyDelete"If I but thought that my response were made to one perhaps returning to the world, this tongue of flame would cease to flicker. But since, up from these depths, no one has yet returned alive, if what I hear is true, I answer without fear of being shamed."
The first stanza of the poem, which is a quotation from Dante's Inferno, is significant because it sets the tone. After looking up the translation of those first couple lines, the rest of the poem seemed much more raw to me, almost like a confession. Since Prufrock doesn't fear shame or judgment at this point, it makes me feel like the rest of his poem is honest. It also makes it seem ominous because he's "responding" to us, and he doesn't think we'll live to tell his story.
The allusion to Dante gives me the impression that Prufrock is already dead when he's telling his story. That would explain why he says he "was" afraid of "the eternal Footman" and ponders if it "would" have been worth while to be Lazarus, the man in the Bible that Jesus brought back to life four days after his death. Perhaps, he's looking back at a date from when he was alive with the knowledge of what's to come.
I saw this as Prufrock becoming like Dante the storyteller, Marlow, or even Horatio. Each takes on the difficult feat of recounting an experience after it has ended. They all have a unique perspective on the events that occurred, and since only they can share that perspective, they need not feel unworthy of telling it.
DeleteWould it have been worth while,
ReplyDeleteTo have bitten off the matter with a smile,
To have squeezed the universe into a ball
To roll it toward some overwhelming question
It is human nature to search for answers or a truth. That's why there are entire books and stories with intense and twisting plots all resolving in a truth or an answer. People have a tendency to ask questions with expectations of getting an answer. However there isn't always an answer or a truth; depending on the question there can even be several different answers.
In this passage the narrator wonders if his life was "worth while" in an attempt to find a meaning to his life. The narrator seems to say he failed to take action in his life and is also questioning his past actions. Since there is no clear cut answer the narrator becomes frustrated. The line "To have squeezed the universe into a ball," is a metaphor for the way people try to condense all the facts of life down into a simple answer. The problem with this is that the universe is huge and there are so many different facets that it cannot be broken down into one answer.
Hamlet also battles with this. At the beginning and towards the middle of the play he tries to make things black and white and it drives him mad. Hamlet tries to roll his answers "towards some overwhelming question", and in turn he becomes overwhelmed. Sometimes when people try to simplify complex problems they actually end up magnifying it, like the way some people smile to cover up pain. It only worsens problems because they are not expressing their true feelings.
This passage is relevant because it shows that Prufrock is looking for meaning in his life and the entire poem is about how he tried to find meaning in his life.
I also think this overwhelming question is alluded by the continual recounting of "fog" in the poem. Fog symbolizes ambiguity and therefore Prufrock feels confused about his life and its meaning. He is confused in his perception of the world and what he has stood for. He doesn't state what question he is trying to find an answer for implicitly, which even adds to the confusion of the poem as a whole. Instead, he adds a large amount of questions in the poem, which all could allude to the one overwhelming question or could just be tiny bypasses to that one question.
Delete“It is impossible to say just what I mean!
ReplyDeleteBut as if a magic lantern threw the nerves in patterns on a screen:
Would it have been worth while
If one, settling a pillow or throwing off a shawl,
And turning toward the window, should say:
‘That is not it at all,
That is not what I meant, at all.’” (104-111)
In this passage, T.S. Eliot is expressing the futility of storytelling in communicating his true experiences. Try as he might, his words (“words, words, words”) simply end up like “patterns on a screen” – perhaps conveying a sense of light and truth, but ultimately indirect and incomplete. As a storyteller, he fears dismissal and invalidation from his audience, and does not even think it “worth while” to attempt it if he experiences these reactions. He finds disappointment from disconnect with his audience worse than not confiding in them at all. Clearly, the stories he tells are tied to his sense of self, and he finds it difficult to cope with the notion that no one will understand him the way he understands himself, struggling with the singularity of existence.
This quote parallels the end of the stanza before it, in which he uses the phrase “settling a pillow by her head.” There, he places a definite gender on the person who will never understand, who casually denies the importance of his story. He implies that all women like Daisy from The Great Gatsby: languid and beauty-centered, without substance but retaining the capacity to hurt him.
Just adding on a little more: Hamlet seems to have this same struggle with Ophelia. Following the "to be or not to be" soliloquy, he pointedly muses on the connection between honesty and beauty, and his parting mini-speech paints Ophelia, and all women, as two-faced and having little substance.
DeleteWow we analyzed these lines in completely different ways, yet somehow did not contradict each other (I think). I love the way you put the idea of the independence of understanding the truth or the intention; "the singularity of existence" is an excellent way to highlight the obvious existential nature of the problem. It seems as though the only possible solutions to the misunderstandings he complains about are either a ubiquitous understanding of everyone's perspective, or an attitude of "to each their own" at the maximum level which seems almost unattainable. I cannot help but think that as unfortunate a problem as he highlights, there is no solution to it even in less dark, foggy and generally ambiguous setting, as context is bound to be the determinant.
DeleteAlso, loving the harsh, but honest way you presented his view of women. While he could obviously not be more wrong about the lack of substance, it does seem to be a perception of women that extends beyond just Hamlet and Eliot, to the likes of Polonius, Laertes or Claudius who objectify their women while giving them incredible amounts of power and control over their lives as is seen by the profound impact Ophelia's death has not only on Hamlet, but even more so with Polonius and Laertes.
"To say: "I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
ReplyDeleteCome back to tell you all, I shall tell you all" --
If one, settling a pillow by her head,
Should say: "That is not what I meant at all.
That is not it, at all."
This quote really caught my attention because of the biblical allusion that Prufrock uses. He mentions Lazarus who Jesus restores to life after he was dead for four days. I think this shows how Prufrock is uncertain of death, very much like Hamlet. The line, "Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all," shows that Prufrock, like Lazarus, would share what he has learned from death. The following two lines exemplifies that people will always want to question you. Lines 96-98 discuss the female companion that Prufrock is spending time with, she tells him that he diddn't understand what she was saying. How she was not implying that she wants to be in a relationship with him, like he wants to be with her.
This excerpt is relevant to the poem because it ilustrates how Prufrock wants stability and meaning in his life. He is searching all over for it, Prufrock hopes stability can come in the form of a woman. So he wanders a red-light district imagining the possibilities of his life.
First off, thanks for explaining the biblical reference, I was not familiar with it and your explanation helped me to understand. I think this section perfectly grasps the idea of frustration the people seem to have when they can't get others to understand what they are trying to say. We all want our story to be told, but no matter how it is told people will never see it exactly how we want them to. We all have had different lives and experiences that will cause us to interpret things differently.
DeleteI've seen a struggle of this concept in both Hamlet and Heart of Darkness. In both situations a character is trying to tell their story in order to have people understand the meaning they have found in their life, but they all have difficulty with the fact that no one seems to fully understand their point. So Hamlet, Prufrock, and Marlow all have found/searched for this meaning, yet others change that meaning. "That is not what I meant at all"
Should we be frustrated that others will never fully understand, or do accept it as a part of life? It can all tie back into the idea of identity, how are others perceiving us etc.. It's like life is a giant game of telephone. You start out with one idea and by the end it has been morphed into something completely different. And as people change it along the way, how will we ever know what the true real meaning is? Very "existential - esque" in my opinion.
Awk. Just realized I used "existential - esque" in two different comments. Oh well... Clearly that is where my mind is right now. Too much contemplation of life.
Delete"I do not think that they will sing to me"
ReplyDeleteWhen people talk about singing, its usually very personal and theres feeling behind it. This man knows that what he is doing or what he has done in the past doesn't earn him the respect of his friends and family. He too like Hamlet is kind of an outcast that doesn't conform to the society they reside in. Singing also implies that the person singing cares about the person they are singing for so to me this implies that they have lost faith in this person.
Prufrock is most likely referring to the Greek Sirens when mentioning the mermaids. The Sirens were gorgeous creatures that would lure in every sailor that came their way. Prufrock thinks so poorly about himself that he doesn't think that even these creatures, who find interest in just about everything, would want him. This shows how isolated and alone he feels.
DeleteI agree that Hamlet feels like he is an outcast. He believes that mostly everyone is against him but unlike Prufrock, this doesn't bother him. He uses this sense of loneliness as motivation which helps him push through whatever stands in his way.
The yellow fog that rubs its back upon the window-panes,
ReplyDeleteThe yellow smoke that rubs its muzzle on the window-panes
I found the word choice in this stanza to be particularly interesting compared to the rest of the poem. Prufrock seems to dallying with idea of synonyms and perception of these words. For example, “fog” versus “smoke.” Fog, which is a word used in “Heart of Darkness” a lot, in the part before Marlow chances upon Kurtz for the first time, is very similar, yet different, to the word smoke. They both resemble confusion, ambiguity, however one is a natural occurrence in nature and the other happens, mostly, from the burning of objects, a man-made occurrence. So, by having Prufrock use both of these words, he suggests his struggle is both a natural occurrence as well as a human, man-made one. Also, the word “smoke” connotes the image of chocking—that it is more dangerous than the other, natural occurrence, thereby warning others of human tendencies.
Another interesting word choice is the continuation of window-panes. This instinctively reminds me of “No Exit”, when the discussion of mirrors plays in. Of course, again, this deals with the issue of perception, however, rather than having to look at yourself, it is you that is on display; a clear window that offers people to look at you and perceive you rather than you having to perceive yourself. Intriguingly, these words follow the “yellow fog”, allowing a synthesis of who is perceiving you through this window. The answer is, of course, man-made (or rather humans) and natural (religious figures such as God.) Prufrock also states in this answer that he perceives the perception of his peers as more dangerous than ones of “fog”, whether due to the fact that he is painfully reminded of his perceptions by his peers more than the latter or by the fact he can relate more to this fear than the other.
Lastly, the use of the word "yellow" is purposeful on Prufrock's part. Yellow can symbolize optimism or happiness. Interestingly enough, I believe Prufrock means to juxtapose this symbolism with the darkness of the "evening." Whether it means that there is hope or that the perceptions, in themselves, are good or positive is entirely up to interpretation.
"And indeed there will be time
ReplyDeleteTo wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?"
Time to turn back and descend the stair"
This man clearly knows that he has something very important lurking in his mind that he wants to share, or ask, however he cannot bring himself to do so. He continuously ignores the "overwhelming question" he stated he had in the beginning of the passage. He seems to be doing this out of lack of confidence in himself, or perhaps just nervousness.
I found that this reminded me of Hamlet, the way he knows what he wants to do, which is avenge his father's death, but has great difficulty bringing himself to do so. Both of these characters have something holding them back from what they want to do, or maybe just what they think they want to do.
This quotation is an important part of the passage, because it seems as if the entire passage works off of the idea that he is not able to ask the important question, and he avoids it the entire poem.
I really appreciated this section of the poem because it again brings up the idea of the question. The idea of daring, rather than staying passive, is a huge struggle for Hamlet, which is expressed in the "to be or not to be" speech. The question is always whether to challenge fortune and fate or whether to take control. However, it seems to me that the narrator of this poem chooses to accept his fate, to not dare challenge his future. The passive language, "Time to turn back and descend the stair" embodies the feeling of one giving up.
DeleteI agree with you. I also think that this could mean that Purfrock is wondering about what his life could have been like if he had done something differently. He is thinking about what he wants to change in his past. This is similar to how the characters in No Exit are stuck in the past and wonder what they could have done better in their life(like how Gacrin wishes he took more action and didn't act like a coward). It hurts Prufrock to imagine a future that he cannot have, similar to how it hurts Hamlet to think of what the kingdom could have been like if his father was still alive.
Delete“I should have been a pair of ragged claws
ReplyDeleteScuttling across the floors of silent seas.”
In this excerpt, Prufrock expresses how he desires to back away from the judgment of his peers much like a crab, “Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.” He feels that whatever he says will most certainly be scrutinized by others and instead of facing the supposed harsh criticism, he can silently walk away. Prufrock perceives the world as intimidating and because of his nature, feels isolated and lonely. Crabs have a thick outer shell protecting them from others. Prufrock expressing his desire to be a crab conveys the goal of self-protection. Crabs never scuttle forwards but rather backwards. He feels that his thoughts are not necessarily moving backwards, though his actions are definitely moving him towards that direction. The bottom of the sea is essentially a location completely removed from the outside world. Everything is dark and you’re completely alone. When I think of “silent seas” I imagine my ears being clogged with water, accentuating the idea of isolation.
There are occurrences in Hamlet when Hamlet feels he is alone. When he finds out that Claudius murdered his father, he felt a sense of loneliness upon realizing that his uncle killed his father and married his mother. He was for a time the only one who knew and he felt as if nature wasn’t working in his favor. Though unlike Prufrock, Hamlet has a desire to act upon thoughts and knowledge where Prufrock expresses no desire to improve his situation.
“That is not it at all,
ReplyDeleteThat is not what I meant, at all.”
No two lines could more perfectly sum up the severe disconnect between the characters in Hamlet. Everyone knows, sees and hears something completely different, which gives their actions, words and ideas a context inexplicable to the others; this makes the ambiguity of the play extend beyond just the unknown to what people believe is known but is actually a complete misunderstanding. Very few interactions occur that are not tainted with justified mistrust and consequential misunderstanding; the whole atmosphere is so tense that every comment made appears to be interpreted in the most misconstrued way possible, which leaves the characters at the end of it all, as they are dying, completely exhausted, but relieved to get a basic grasp of what went on.
I definitely agree. This connects to the use of language in Hamlet. The characters, especially Hamlet use language to construct reality and convey feelings. However sometimes language and words fail to accurately represent what a person is feeling. For example when Horatio says "All of his golden words are spent". This shows that af the moment Hamlet had no words to describe the situation. Hamlet loves to twist words into different meanings(other than what was intended) to try and make other characters sound foolish or evil, so when he is at a loss of words he is very vulnerable(because he can't use words as a defense mechanism).
Delete"S’io credesse che mia risposta fosse
ReplyDeleteA persona che mai tornasse al mondo,
Questa fiamma staria senza piu scosse.
Ma perciocche giammai di questo fondo
Non torno vivo alcun, s’i’odo il vero,
Senza tema d’infamia ti rispondo."
This is the beginning quote that Eliot took from Inferno. I thought that it was very interesting, and here's why: Translated it looks like:
"If I believed that my response was heard by anyone returning to the world, this flame would never stir again. But since no man has ever come alive out of this gulf of Hell, if I hear true, I'll answer with no fear of infamy."
In Inferno, this line was spoken to Dante by Guido da Montefeltro, military strategist who was accused by Dante of giving fraudulent advice. In Hell, his punishment was to be hidden from view inside large flames.
I believe that Montefeltro's situation seems to mirror the situation of Prufrock in certain ways. In his bit at the top, he says that he is only willing to disclose his story to Dante because he "knew" that nobody ever made it out of Hell alive.
I believe that Montefeltro's fraudulence reflects on Prufrock. I think that Prufrock is committing a sort of fraudulence by just trying to "get with" women quickly and infrequently. I believe that Prufrock's own self awareness and self consciousness is what creates his hell, though, not flames. However, the poem does include a lot of imagery of smoke. (Perhaps this smoke is a complement to Montefeltro's flames in Hell?) I also think that Prufrock's self consciousness correlates to Montefeltro's Hell because both of them are stuck in "eternity" dwelling on their short comings.
Perhaps it is not just self-awareness that keeps these characters in hell, but their inability to convey their ideas. The flame that blocks people’s vision of Montefeltro could be symbolic of Montefeltro's inability to be understood. Profrock shares these frustrations, exclaiming that it is impossible to say just what he means. Their suffering is eternal, because one cannot escape subjectivity.
DeleteWe have lingered in the chambers of the sea
ReplyDeleteBy sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.
These last couple lines of the poem really exemplify our innate simple mindedness as we go about in our lives, a lot of us lazy and idle and have no true ambition. Prufrock is just like any other guy who inevitably regrets some of the things of his past and to an extent is wishing for more out of life but succumbs to drifting aimlessly in a sea of depravity and insecurity.
The last line in particular really relates to Hamlet in how the seeing and hearing of the ghost of Hamlet's father changed the way hamlet and horatio view the world. Language and voice prove existence in a discernible and concrete way that cannot be unacknowledged or refuted. A wise man named Socrates once said an unexamined life is not worth living but in a sense looking back on our own past experiences is all we can do because we do not really know what lies ahead in the future and we do not know if our fate is already predetermined.
***"an unexamined life is not worth living" but..
DeleteI agree with the idea of voices being so influential and having the ability to change people, and also how Hamlet had an experience in which language and voice did so. Hamlet was in a state of despair and was still mourning over his father's death, however, after suddenly hearing from his father he seemed to awake from his state of depression and denial. He decided to finally begin being an influence on others through his actions again, even if this time they weren't based on good intentions. Hamlet, in a sense, woke as a result of the voice he was presented with, and it changed him entirely.
Delete“No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be.”
ReplyDeleteIn this line, the narrator is assuring the reader that unlike Hamlet, he is not significant. Furthermore, the exclamation point after the word “No” gives his words a defensive tone. Although many people live life trying to make an impact, the narrator sees human actions as harmful and disturbing of a peaceful universe. He describes the October night as soft and says that the evening sleeps peacefully. He also implies that he would rather be a crab, a simple being lacking consciousness.
Perhaps Elliot uses Hamlet as a metaphor for all humankind, because Hamlet is the epitome of destructive action. Although Hamlet gets the revenge he seeks throughout the play, he causes chaos and death, and Prufrock realizes he doesn’t want this. However, there are some parallels between the poem’s narrator and Hamlet. The poem resembles Hamlet’s soliloquies where he is expressing frustration with the limitations of language and the inability to be understood by others. They also share a longing to be insignificant which is expressed when Hamlet states that he wishes his flesh would resolve into a dew. Although Profrock separates himself from Hamlet, he is the subject of Elliot’s poem, which inevitably gives him more significance than he is comfortable with.